One request for a mechanic, this time with enough pictures to kill dialup users.

[Prodigal Son]

If you like a challenge, or just want to guess at something automotive related, feel free to read on. Otherwise, unless you like pictures of greasy metal, nothing to see here...

EDIT: Just looked at this on my dad's desktop, those pictures are huge. My laptop has a high-res screen and those things only filled like 3/4 of the screen...on his 17" desktop monitor it fills 102% of the screen...sorry.

Alright...first, my "lift" consisting of 12,000lb jackstands up front, 6,000lb stands in the rear and 7,500lb jackstands shoved in the middle, just in case...:


Here's the clutch that was in it...see any glaring defects that might cause all kinds of trouble shifting (please say yes):




While your at it...diagnose my tranny, throwout bearing, etc...from the outside, with only two pictures :




Finally, in all seriousness, I got the flywheel off and I can now see that my oil leak is on the back of the engine. (It only leaks when the engine is running and is definitely coming from up high on the back of the engine, but I could never see the back of the engine up high until the tranny/flywheel came off.) That's all good and well, but I don't really know where to start...here's some pictures...have at it.

[Kern O]

What did the clutch disc itself look like?

About the oil leak. GM products are very prone to rear main seal leaks. And, when they do leak, the oil leaks onto the flywheel which then sprays it uniformly all over the back of the block. You'll notice that the caked oil is everywhere, not just in a drip line. That's what makes it look like rear main seal to me. If you look at the bell housing and the where it mates up to the block, those surfaces are pretty clean - with the possible exception of the top center. If there is a gap at the top, oil from an intake gasket could be coming into the bell housing area at that point and will get sprayed by the flywheel as well. Is there a gap, or does the bell housing seat all the way around?

If it is the rear main, you may just want to drive it until it dies. Typically it means dropping the pan and the rear main cap. That also means you get to reseal the front cover......

[Prodigal Son]

I'll have to look (as to whether the bell housing has a gap). I figured rear main...sadly, because that seems like a real joy to replace with the engine in.

(In this space I asked if I could clean the engine and then run it and look for the oil leak before I put anything back on there...I then remembered that the flywheel might be a good step in the right direction in terms of getting the car started...)

[Kern O]

Nah, just a rope around the harmonic balancer.

Unfortunately, you have one of many "new generation: vehicles where engine removal and installation was not a design priority. It is not limited to GM. But it does make engine work very difficult. Yours is happiest going in from the bottom and then sits so far back in the hole that you can't reach anything to work on it. It is as if the shop manual should say "Step 1: remove all sheet metal from the firewall forward."

Even changing plugs is a pain in the tail. If you ever have the chance to pick one up, the 2005 and 2006 GTOs actually have an engine bay where you can see all 8 plugs and the ground beneath them. It is a GM car, but built by Holden in Australia, so it does not comply with the ordinary GM beancounter rules. The Tremec 6 speed is not a good shifting tranny, so buy the automatic. Even better, they don't have OnStar!

[blueh20pc]

Ryan,

Assuming that parts are still laying in the driveway.

I'm gonna recommend four steps to solve your dilemna.

Go to your favorite advance, napa, pep boys, etc.

Buy six cans of brake cleaner, a new clutch pack, throw out bearing, and rear main seal.

Get home. Spray the first two cans of brake cleaner over everything you've taken a picture of.

Wait 10 minutes, then take a soft copper bristle brush to clean off all the gunk in the bellhousing area, then use your third can to clean off the belhousing area.

Drain engine oil from crankcase.

Next is the difficult part. Take an icepick or other very sharp pointy instrument and gently pry out that rear main seal from the crank. DO NOT damage the running surface of that block with scratches or whatnot.

Take your brand new rear main seal, lube it with fresh 10-40 motor oil, get a chunk of 1x2 and a ball peen, and gently tap it into place. Be sure to keep the seal flush on the horizontal axis of the crank. The crank bearings will hold the crank in place, just make sure not to twist it, or cock it so that it leaks. Tap it in with the block as far in as the old one was.

Spray your fourth can of brake cleaner over your new install..

Reinstall the new clutch and tranny.

Break in the clutch gently for the first 10 miles, then hammer it after that.

The last two cans are for cleaning off the driveway and tools.

[Kern O]

Since that is a one piece rear main seal, you can probably get away with prying it out and replacing it in place.

Before you start spraying the brake cleaner (which is a great suggestion) lay a good sized piece of cardboard down for everything to drip on. Cardboard does a great job of absorbing brake cleaner.

[Garett]

Hmmmm, pulling the tranny/ clutch/ flywheel with the starter in place is a new one to me....boy I must be old school.


Replacing the throwout bearing. Is that model prone to early retirement of the throwout bear? Generally throwout bearings last forever unless the driver doesn't know how to drive a stick...........but the tranny is out, therefore now is the time to do it if one is going to change it. Myself, if the bearing turns freely and it is tight I wouldn't be replacing it.

Engine "GUNK" IMO works much better then brake cleaner for removing engine oil. One can will clean all that up and you shouldn't have to scrub nothing! Spray with GUNK, let sit, garden hose off the mess! Repeat for really built up areas.

Clutch packs: there's little doubt the clutch disc is shot....clutch discs and oil don't mix. But would I buy a clutch plate as well? Possibly, probably not....BUT I would sure inspect the heck out of that plate's surface before I said no or yes to buying a new one.
* How hard has that clutch been ridden?
* How many miles on the car; how many city miles would you put to the total car's mileage?
* Are you seeing any spider cracks on the plate's surface? If you are seeing spider cracks then yes I would be replacing it without question.

Flywheel: Is the flywheel show any spider cracks? If so, I'd be replacing it as well. If not, I would be taking it in to an automotive machine shop and having it resurfaced! And if I wasn't replacing my clutch plate I would be having the plate's surface refaced as well!

When a clutch disc is exposed to oil droplets the droplets does not create a complete film of oil over the disc's surface all at once, it just screws up little areas at a time. So what happens is the oily areas of the disc becomes skid zones if you may and the non-oily areas bit/ engage. Well it is the inconsistency of the disc's surface which creates hot areas on both the flywheel and the clutch plate. These hot areas do two things, One they cause both surfaces to become uneven (not flat smooth) and if the condition goes on long enough that heat build up causes spider cracks in both hard surfaces. Some might say the heck with spider cracks.....I'm not racing the car and I'm not turning 10-12k rpm.....as long as both hard surfaces are milled smooth I should be good to go. Well it's an arguable point for sure, I guess it really depends on how big and how many spider cracks we are talking about........an automotive machine shop that turns flywheels and clutch plates will be best to advise you.
* How much money do you want to spend on this job?
* How much longer do you want to drive this car?
* How much city driving is the car exposed to?
* How much hard launching are you doing?
These would be questions I'd want to answer myself before I started shelling out the big dollars. Oh, price out the difference between having the clutch plate resurfaced and buying a new one.

[Prodigal Son]

Already have a new clutch "kit" which included a disk, plate, throwout bearing, pilot bushing and a packet of grease for $155.

Probably not inclined to fool with replacing the rear main...I have a friend who works at a junk yard (excuse me, an automotive salvage facility) who is looking for another tranny for me, so I'll be back under there soon with any luck. I'll mess with it then, for now I'm getting ate up with gas prices and need this car on the road, however temporarily.

The flywheel will be machined tomorrow and then then the whole deal gets thrown back together and we see where we stand...

Thanks for the tips...on the way home this afternoon, as I watched the gas I put in my truck this morning at $3.93/gallon burn away in traffic, it hit me that I need to get this car back together ASAP and not worry about fixing problems that aren't so serious that they can't wait (such as oil leaks and state inspections ).

[Garett]

$155.00
Must be nice. Crips I'd expect to pay that just for a disc.

[welder]

And BEFORE you get back under that car you are using wheel chocks and jack stands , yes.

Take your time and don't bleed.