Trailer Towing

[dawiggs]

Not sure where this subject goes, but here goes...PLease no personal opionions, just facts!!!
On another forum there is a lot of discussion about North Carolina towing regs. It seems that Sate Police in some areas are stepping up enforcement of :> gross weight of towing vehicle plus trailer and load gross weight, how licensed?:> Width, Where is measurement, beam of boat or outside axle to axle?, >Do we need a over width permit which has restrictions?> Do we need a Class A license?> Is there a difference between "private recreational" and "commercial towing" ???? : Lots of questions but there are confusing answers from the State agencies...
Regards,
dave

[blueh20pc]

Originally Posted by dawiggs

Not sure where this subject goes, but here goes...PLease no personal opionions, just facts!!!
On another forum there is a lot of discussion about North Carolina towing regs. It seems that Sate Police in some areas are stepping up enforcement of :> gross weight of towing vehicle plus trailer and load gross weight, how licensed?:> Width, Where is measurement, beam of boat or outside axle to axle?, >Do we need a over width permit which has restrictions?> Do we need a Class A license?> Is there a difference between "private recreational" and "commercial towing" ???? : Lots of questions but there are confusing answers from the State agencies...
Regards,
dave

Dave:

anything Rec is just that, Rec...

So, you are licensed to haul any Gross Combined Vehicle Weight (GCVW) under 26000 pounds with holding a simple drivers license, with proper weighted tags identifying that vehicle to haul that load.

Measurement is not the beam of the boat, it is from side to side of the load and apparatus. Hence, if your axles stick out over the beam, or your beam sticks out over the axles on a big Carolina style boat, or the extended mirrors on your dually 3500 stick out, then that's the measurement in NC for width of your vehicle, in the eyes of the NCSHP.

You may well be towing and 8'6 beam boat, but I bet those axles and fenders stick out another 6 inches on each side of your trailer, and that's what's making you overwide.

Once you hit 26K lbs loaded GCVW, then you must have a CDL in NC. Because at 26k lbs you really need air brakes on multiple axles, and they require some special training, hydraulic doesn't do it anymore. Not hard to train, just different.

CDL-A should be reserved for heavy 18 wheelers and up, because they haul more weight, and generally have hazmat loads mixed in, which is a whole different matter with background checks and strapping requirements, also about which roads you can and can not drive on, during certain hours of the day. Over 40K lbs, you must have a CDL-A

So, there's the background.

Now, let's say you want to haul the SP down to florida for some fishing, as an example.

You have a triaxle trailer, load the boat up. Your 26 is a 9'6 beam, with the trailer your at 10'6. Even though your rig weighs less than 26K lbs, your overwidth. You'd have to affix overwide signs to the front and rear of the GCV announcing you're overwide, as well as flags flying off the corners. In some states (up north, MA, CT, VT, NY, you'd need a pilot car fore and aft as well as a pre approved DOT report as to which routes you will be allowed to take). Down south, no worries. Texas allows you to haul 18 feet down the road, no problems. You are safe with a standard drivers license, underwidth (less than 108 inches total width), and less than 26K lbs combined GCVW, in NC ONLY. FLORIDA is a whole different matter, and they will stop and inspect you on the way down I-95.

Here, there cracking down on the GCVW, and that's all. Wait till the troopers figure out that they can fine for dimensional width also, especially during non daylight hours.

That's a 500$ moving violation I believe.

You cannot drive during darkness with an oversized load. period.

[Capt. Fred]

Does anybody know if all this applies to Virginia trucks too?

[blueh20pc]

Originally Posted by Capt. Fred

Does anybody know if all this applies to Virginia trucks too?

No, they are a completely different sate with different size regs.

VA does not have a weighted system for tags, they have a commercial license plate for over 26K lbs, if I remember rightly.

THIS IS WHERE THE CONFUSION COMES IN, BECAUSE OF THE DIFFERENT STATES.

Va only requires a CDL-B for loads over 26K till 40K lbs GCVW, allowing Dumptrucks to get away with the less costly CDL-B licenses, except the drop down axle dumps which can weigh up to 50K lbs they need the CDL-A.

VA recognizes the 108 inch overwidth limit also, and the VA SP have always been more enforcing than NC troopers about this matter.

See how it can get confusing, it's because the Fed's haven't taken control of weight and overwidth limits like they should of when they built the Intestates.

Don't get me started on IFTA and Federal Highway Inspections.

[dawiggs]

Chris, Good report,,
Seems there are 2 issues.
>Gross over weight combination (vehicle and loaded trailer). Class A license??
> Over Width which may require permit, will NOT allow movement between Sunrise and Sunset, Saturday or Sunday or Holidays..
Is there a difference between personal recreational and commercial towing?
Again, just looking for info.
Regards,
dave

[blueh20pc]

Originally Posted by dawiggs

Chris, Good report,,
Seems there are 2 issues.
>Gross over weight combination (vehicle and loaded trailer). Class A license??
> Over Width which may require permit, will NOT allow movement between Sunrise and Sunset, Saturday or Sunday or Holidays..
Is there a difference between personal recreational and commercial towing?
Again, just looking for info.
Regards,
dave

Dave, the way I interpret it, as applies to cdl holders:

GCVW vehicles under 26,000 lbs, no special license is needed, however, the vehicle must be tagged to tow up to 26000 lbs GCVW by weight.

When you exceed 108 inches width, then you are subject to the wide load permits and henceforth rules in NC, ie, dusk to dark regs and pilot cars and flagging.] in other states.

At these weights you are not subject to any single axle load rating, as are tractor trailers.

If you follow these rules, MOST NC SHP officers will not bother you.

HOWEVER,

Mark is speaking directly of the ambiguity that is happening now in NC by greedy fine hungry counties who cannot interpret the law as it is written, and hope that the accused offender just pays the fine.

The fact that I, as a licensed CDL-A driver, am explaining the facts tonight, is example enough that NC DMV has lagged in explaining this fact to the population who tow vehicles down the highway everyday.

If there was a hard and fact rule system, everyone would follow it, and this issue wouldn't be here.

So YOU're solution for hauling the SP down the road in NC.

Have a valid regular drivers license, a tow vehicle with weighted tags to 20K lbs CGVW, and be under 108 inches total, if not, then hang an over sized flag on the front of the tow vehicle and the rear of the trailer while towing. If under 13'6 height, then you need no pilot cars as long as you stay on state routes, US highways and US Interstates. Rural routes may be another matter, depending on state.



Hope this helps.

C

[offshore]

AS I have said on a few threads and the thread in the NC forum.
The problem in NC is that none of the agencies are on the same sheet of music. If you call the DMV they will tell you one thing, the State police will tell you another, the dept of Transportation will tell you something different and local police dont really care. So how can you obey the law when none of the agencies above can give you a consistant answer. I received three different answers when I bought my truck and was putting tags on them so who knows what is correct. Go try digging through the laws and try to figure it out. No wonder no one can give you a straight answer.
If this was a safety matter they would be stopping everyone checking for brakes, safety chains, lights, or the guy with the S10 pulling a piece of crap single axel trailer with a 5000lb boat. But this is not the case. They are targeting those they think should have a weighted tag and then fining them...........Mark
So tell me if a recreational Boat is a wide load you cannot trailer it at night or on Sundays so how are you suposed to get it home. Take a three day trip to fish one day?? Dosent make any sense at all. And this does not apply to camping trailers they dont need a wide load permit if they are over width according to what I have read. And why arent SUVs required to get a weighted tag that seems to be the safest thing I have heard in a while??..Mark

[blueh20pc]

Originally Posted by offshore

AS I have said on a few threads and the thread in the NC forum.
The problem in NC is that none of the agencies are on the same sheet of music. If you call the DMV they will tell you one thing, the State police will tell you another, the dept of Transportation will tell you something different and local police dont really care. So how can you obey the law when none of the agencies above can give you a consistant answer. I received three different answers when I bought my truck and was putting tags on them so who knows what is correct. Go try digging through the laws and try to figure it out. No wonder no one can give you a straight answer.
If this was a safety matter they would be stopping everyone checking for brakes, safety chains, lights, or the guy with the S10 pulling a piece of crap single axel trailer with a 5000lb boat. But this is not the case. They are targeting those they think should have a weighted tag and then fining them...........Mark
So tell me if a recreational Boat is a wide load you cannot trailer it at night or on Sundays so how are you suposed to get it home. Take a three day trip to fish one day?? Dosent make any sense at all. And this does not apply to camping trailers they dont need a wide load permit if they are over width according to what I have read. And why arent SUVs required to get a weighted tag that seems to be the safest thing I have heard in a while??..Mark

Ok, here goes Mark, the NC state regs as I can tell from all this.

And, by all means, feel free to copy and paste me over whichever forum to help out those guys over on the THT.


IN NC:


If you are trailering, and your rig is over 108 inches at any point, you need wide load banners front and rear of the vehicle, and red flags on each corner. Stay on US interstates, State Hwy's and NC RTE's as much as possible. No trailering on weekends, dusk to dawn, or holidays. Sorry, it's the law.


Pickup Trucks are required to have weighted tags for the GCVW, That's the combined weight of both the truck, trailer and boat. That's what they are targeting right now.

SUV's aren't pickup trucks in NC law. Yet my Armada can pull my 6K boat down the highway all day long, legally, at 10k CGVW. That's stupid, it should be weighted, but the politicians haven't realized this loophole yet. The Nissan Armada is rated to pull 9400 pounds by the manufacturer, I can go to a 26 Reg with this SUV by law without needing a plate. SUV's need to be weighted also.

[Kern O]

I downloaded and read the regulations and they are pretty well in line with most of the other states. Up to 10 feet wide is no big deal and the permit cost $100.00 per year. Weirdness comes in on no towing overwides on Sunday and Holidays, but there are apparently exceptions.

I doubt that the law was written with boats in mind and it was probably written before trailer boats even had 8 foot beams.

The law on weights is bizarre, at best. But at least you can pay the fee and tow 60,000 pounds if you want. I'd make darn sure I paid enough to avoid any question about that problem. Got a 10k boat and a 20k permit? Short conversation and no need for scales.

If I were faced with the problem, I'd buy the permit and pay the weight fees. I'd have the flags and banners with me (which is easy) and would only use them after the first time I was stopped. I'd leave 'em in the truck on Sundays and tow the boat anyway.

I've felt that if the wide part of the boat is the gunwales and they are higher than most cars, the cops don't seem to care. If you have side guides or fenders sticking out over 8'6", you are just asking for trouble.

[Blue Water Runner]

Whats sad is what you have to pay for tags in NC. My tag runs me over $200 a year. The highway use tax is one of the highest in the nation here in NC. Look at the prices of our fuel. We get little in return compared to the other local states around us. NC roads used to be the best in the nation. Now they are some of the worst. This topic was discussed here also: http://www.nc4x4.com/forums/showthread.php?t=60 and a lawyer was consulted to get answers to the questions on weight. The width issue is a whole different ball of wax though. SUVs and motorhomes (both exempt)should have to pay the same thing I do.