TheBurningReel's Home Page TheBurningReel's Forum Support TBR! Live Marine Forecast TheBurningReel's Online Store TheBurningReel's Photo Gallery TheBurningReel's Fishing Chat The Burning Reel Boating & Fishing Information and Reports Forum - FairWeather


Go Back   Boating & Fishing Information and Reports Forum - FairWeather > General Information > Fishing Forum




Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1 (permalink)  
Old 09-17-2008, 04:59 PM
TunaTeaser1's Avatar
Mate
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Manteo/Raleigh/Richmond
Posts: 280
See TunaTeaser1's Photo Albums
Default Birds on radar

What's the best way to know your radar is truly tuned in for spotting birds. Ours is much more antiquated than the new stuff but its a furuno 48mile array. I don't trust that it's birds on the screen at all...how do yall set yours up for spotting birds?
Reply With Quote
  #2 (permalink)  
Old 09-17-2008, 05:23 PM
bluffman2's Avatar
Moderator
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: pascagoula,ms
Posts: 1,602
See bluffman2's Photo Albums
Send a message via AIM to bluffman2 Send a message via Yahoo to bluffman2
Default

heck with the radar ...get ya a good bird dawg!!!

there are a few guys that will explain it to you.....i only have a 2kw just for nav purposes...
__________________
Stephen
2005 sea pro 206 150 yamaha 4strk
2003 sea ark all weld 25 honda 4strk

Click Here to Register for the 2009 FairWeather Fall Blast

Reply With Quote
  #3 (permalink)  
Old 09-17-2008, 05:58 PM
TunaTeaser1's Avatar
Mate
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Manteo/Raleigh/Richmond
Posts: 280
See TunaTeaser1's Photo Albums
Default

Hope so...I don't know how many Kw this one is but I figure 4 or 6 at least. All I've heard is to turn the gain up until it snows then back it down a bit. Still a little too much distortion for me....but maybe they're all birds?
Reply With Quote
  #4 (permalink)  
Old 09-17-2008, 06:41 PM
bluffman2's Avatar
Moderator
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: pascagoula,ms
Posts: 1,602
See bluffman2's Photo Albums
Send a message via AIM to bluffman2 Send a message via Yahoo to bluffman2
Default

heres a "tutorial" (so to say) i found....

It's a long, 100-mile trip to the other side of the Gulf Stream to catch yellowfin tuna, and it's a big ocean for skippers out of Port Canaveral, Florida, like Capt. Mike Kane on White Water. Describing a recent - and pretty typical - trip, Kane says he gets the edge he needs from radar, in his case a 25-kilowatt Simrad. After studying the screen once they'd reached the grounds, Kane says, "I figured we had a school working some 8 miles off to the northeast." Sure enough, when they arrived at the spot, a flock of frigate birds was feeding over the sort of white-water explosions that signal tuna in a feeding frenzy. "Without the radar," Kane says, "we might have trolled around all day and never found that school." "When you're looking for a flock of birds out on open seas," says radar expert Steve Nusser, of Steve's Mobile Marine in Coral Gables, Florida, "there's no way a human being can see them 6 or 7 miles away with the naked eye." GEARING UP When a customer tells him he wants to see birds, Nusser says he raises the performance bar to a higher notch. He's installed a half-dozen 10-kilowatt Koden radars over the past year, all capable of spotting birds at 6 to 10 miles. Raytheon's newest radars with MagTronic technology, borrowed from the company's defense division, effectively doubles the reception range for the same power. For the first time, anglers can spot birds 4 to 6 miles off with a 4-kilowatt radar. Without this new technology, 4-kilowatt units simply lack the muscle to spot birds. This restricts the most effective bird-spotting radars to larger boats that have enough bridge space for bigger displays and are better equipped to accommodate the 4- to 6-foot antennas common to 10-kilowatt models. Since sea birds are small, relatively soft objects that return weak radar echoes, more power focused into a tight beam is needed to get a distinguishable echo, especially at longer ranges. Bigger CRT displays are called for because they provide the definition necessary to show small targets when set at longer-range scales. John Caballero, general manager of Simrad, suggests several factors to consider when buying a radar for fishing. "S-band radars are almost specifically designed for the purpose of detecting birds, but are way too expensive for most recreational anglers. But today's X-band radars have better transceivers and use advanced signal processing techniques. That makes them more than capable of displaying relatively low-flying birds at considerable distances. A buyer should inquire about a radar's output power, frequency, beam form, pulse repetition rate, pulse length, signal processing and display resolution, as these all combine in determining whether birds will appear on your screen or be invisible to your radar." Radars with more than 4 kilowatts of power generally include an open-array antenna with a narrower beam width and better overall signal output and return than smaller radome antennas. Most radome antennas have beam widths of 3 to 7 degrees while open-array antennas usually have tighter beam widths of about 2 degrees. The tighter the beam, the closer birds can be to each other and to the water and still be displayed separately. The wider the beam, the greater the tendency for a unit to blend targets that are close together into a single blob instead of showing them as individual marks. Ten-kilowatt, X-band radars with 12-, 15- and 20-inch displays are available from most of the major manufacturers. Nusser says that choosing the largest display that you have room to mount guarantees the best screen definition and gives you the best chance of spotting birds. FINE-TUNE FOR FEATHERS Today's radars have excellent auto-tuning features which match the antenna to the set, but the key to seeing birds is getting the gain setting exactly right, and that's something the angler has to do. "Turn it up until you start seeing false returns," Nusser advises, "then nudge it back down until they go away. The wrong gain setting can do the same thing that improper tuning does. If you have the gain set too low, there will be targets out there you won't see. If you turn it too high it will start showing you targets that don't exist." The proper gain setting necessary to see the cluster of specks that indicate birds is different on every installation because there are so many variables involved. Kane suggests starting with your gain set at maximum, and the sea clutter filter turned off. "Remember that the bigger the seas get, the less bird-spotting range your radar will have as well," he warns, "especially on lower-power units or boats with antennas closer to the water's surface." Kane also uses his unit to spot weed lines on flat-calm days. Here's a simple way to find the right setting: Have someone stand by with his boat near some birds and be ready to chum. Move apart the distance you want to spot birds on the radar and have him toss the chum and move off. As the birds swoop down, switch your radar to the minimum range scale that will reach them (to get the best possible screen resolution) and start tweaking the gain until you see the birds. Have the other boat stay within sight of the birds so you can get a running description of their actions by radio during the test. Try this at several ranges and under different sea conditions. You'll find the right gain setting for most fishing conditions while discovering the bird-spotting limits of your equipment. To test this without a second boat, or to test a smaller radar that probably won't show birds that are out of sight, you can spread the chum yourself and watch the birds on radar as you move slowly away. When the birds disappear from the display, you'll know that you've either passed your radar's maximum bird-spotting range or they've settled on the water after polishing off the chum.
__________________
Stephen
2005 sea pro 206 150 yamaha 4strk
2003 sea ark all weld 25 honda 4strk

Click Here to Register for the 2009 FairWeather Fall Blast


Last edited by bluffman2; 09-17-2008 at 06:44 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #5 (permalink)  
Old 09-18-2008, 09:38 AM
TunaTeaser1's Avatar
Mate
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Manteo/Raleigh/Richmond
Posts: 280
See TunaTeaser1's Photo Albums
Default

Thanks for the article
Reply With Quote
  #6 (permalink)  
Old 09-18-2008, 10:56 AM
bluffman2's Avatar
Moderator
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: pascagoula,ms
Posts: 1,602
See bluffman2's Photo Albums
Send a message via AIM to bluffman2 Send a message via Yahoo to bluffman2
Default

hope it helped a little.....
__________________
Stephen
2005 sea pro 206 150 yamaha 4strk
2003 sea ark all weld 25 honda 4strk

Click Here to Register for the 2009 FairWeather Fall Blast

Reply With Quote
  #7 (permalink)  
Old 09-23-2008, 03:54 PM
Bait Boy
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 32
See BW28's Photo Albums
Default

Tunateaser,

Assuming you have sufficient power (4kw min.) and and open array, the article above gives a decent starting point.
I had the same issue originally. Save yourself a lot of trial and error and wait until you find some birds with your eyes, get within a 1/2 mile and turn up the gain till you get them on the screen. Drive away all the while increasing the range and adjusting the gain. You will learn more in that 15 min. than the hours of research you'll do. Been there done that.
With that being said here is my basic approach, turn a/c sea off, leave a/c rain on, then put it on whatever range you want to use. Adjusting the gain takes some trial and error, mine ends up being around 75% of max gain, but a little different each day. The gain needs to be high enough that the entire screen always has "snow"and you are getting a few small hard false returns but that don't repeat themselves, yes it is distorted. The gain is so high that some big close target will totally distort, give shadow returns and streak across 1/4 of the screen. It needs to be that high to get the distance and consistent returns you want. The bird returns will be interrmittent, unless it is a large flock. The best way to distinguish birds from another target is that the shape will constantly be changing, and if your unsure turn down the gain for a second so you can only see know hard targets and the birds should disappear.
Helped me a little during winter Rock season on the beach, except for the flocks of coots you end up running to also.
BW28
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 03:37 PM.


TBR's Proud
Sponsers